@jasonekratz @Parag A couple years ago I read or heard on a podcast a discussion about the topic of apps listening. The point was being made that they don't need to listen because of the background data/connections being made. If you're connected to your colleague in social media, then it might be worth considering the ways in which that colleague is connected to the restaurant: location tracking by social app, did they post on social app about the restaurant, etc.

@crossingthethreshold No problem and thanks so much for your thoughtful reply and questions. It's a fine balance we have to consider. It would seem as individual humans and as societies we have pushed ourselves to a kind of breaking point. And on some level, as you say, acknowledged or not, we seem to be collectively pushing forward into an abyss but individually recognizing the danger. Sharing, talking about it is difficult. Finding the right words, the balance between being gentle, hopeful and yet giving the moment it's full weight and urgency seems impossible.

@jtr No problem. The initial post was just the link to the Guardian. It prompted the conversation and one of my replies seemed to resonate. At Patrick's suggestion I turned that particular comment into a post here:

@crossingthethreshold Good questions and points. I think we're all complicit to some degree. Some of us especially live in societies which have led the charge in the wrong direction. Certainly in the US hyper-consumerism has been our way of life for decades. It's difficult to break out of it.

As for the internet and computers role in climate change, it's significant. A lot of resources tied up in the production of the devices. And of course powering them and the internet. That said, it doesn't show up with its own slice of a pie chart on pages such as this: Emissions by sector - Our World in Data,

And from what I've read recently Machine Learning, AI is even more significant in usage though I've not seen any numbers. But not to surprising that it's more energy intensive.

Here's just source on "digital carbon footprint" claims about 1.4% of global emissions. I'm not sure how accurate that is but it's one source:

I don't think it's something we can ignore. As an Apple customer I've been really impressed with the focus they've put on the issue over the past 10+ years and they've made real progress. There's far more to be done of course but they are setting a significant example.

Certainly, on the personal level, it's important to keep devices as long as possible and when possible see that they either get recycled or, even better, passed on for future use to a family member, friend or someone in need.

In terms of home energy use multiple devices surely add up and should be accounted for but they're not the primary uses in the average home. Home heating, then cooling stand out at the top of the list. Then water heating, cooking, refrigeration, dishwashing machines, all stand out as higher uses.

That said, some desktop gaming computers use significant energy, far more than say, a Mac Mini or iPad. It's all relative.

@circustiger @UndamnedOne @patrickrhone I'm glad that it resonated with you.

@patrickrhone, I've written often about climate but perhaps never in quite this way. Thanks for the suggestion.

@UndamnedOne, agree with you about people's reaction to Covid. There's not much evidence that people are willing to come together, to work together.

@circustiger Agreed on the increasing frequency and severity. I've always been fond of the idea that we should be the change we want to see in the world. Many years ago I read Gandhi's autobiography and found his determination, stubborness and self-directed strictness inspiring. His focus on idealistic restraint, of having a core ethical code to guide his behavior and activism is something I tried to follow. A quote of his that stuck with me:

"What you may do may seem insignifant but it is most significant that you do it."

Together we gain significance and together our actions begin to matter. GIven the decades of evidence that governments seem incapable of leading the way it would seem to me that if ever there was a time for the idealism of "We the people" it is now. A collective movment, a coming together is what we need.

But it seems to me that we each have to really stare into and confront the deep dark of what is coming and be resolute in our determination. It begins with each of us making our commitment. That's the foundation that we need. And from there we can share and encourage one another in families, neighborhoods, and communities.

@UndamnedOne My take is that we are likely doomed. BUT, BUT, my take is also that if 300 million Americans lived like it mattered then we would make progress. I've long thought that we should lead in every way. We live in this weird state of knowing on some level (for decades) that US "democracy" is a bit of a sham, bought and paid for, and in so many ways broken. I long ago took that attitude that it could not be trusted to fix our problems. I feel like time is proving me out there.

And so, given that, to expect a broken political system to fix this problem, especially THIS problem, is folly. And so knowing it was likely futile I began living the most extreme example possible and have constantly urged my family, friends and strangers to do the same. We'll likely fail but at the end of the day we will have tried.

Air travel should be banned so I don't fly. Car travel should be rationed to only that which is necessary so I don't drive. Generation of electricity should be solar, wind, etc. Until it is it should be rationed. So I ration my use. Plastic should be banned so I have cut (by about 95%) it out of my life.

I can see no higher purpose then to live as though the future mattered. To do otherwise, to me, is to live a life that is just deferred violence upon other humans and every other species on the planet. It's that simple.

So, I support all of us living the most restrained lives possible with this one goal being the focus.


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